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Oct 10, 2023

ATF Agents Attempt 'Solvent Trap' Confiscation, Man Tells Them To Get a Warrant [VIDEO]

The boys from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives and really

The boys from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives and really big fires have grown increasingly busy in recent weeks. If they’re not running down legitimate gun owners while fishing for straw purchasers, then they’re trying to intimidate people into surrendering forced reset triggers. Now they’re hitting the pavement hectoring people about (formerly legal) solvent traps.

The fine folks over at Gun Owners of America have come across video from an ATF home visit documenting a couple of he Justice Department's finest trying to get a gun owner to admit to owning or receiving a now-prohibited solvent trap. They also wanted him to surrender it.

On this day at this address, ATF-Troop ran into a gun owner who not only refused to admit to anything, but he told them to beat it and come back with a warrant. He also videotaped the encounter. Ouch.

ATF-Troop didn't like his assertion of his rights.

Agent #2: "We’re not trying to be jerks here."

Man: "You are though…"

Agent #2: "But we’re not."

Man: "You’re the ATF."

The man then told them that their job is to take away people's guns. To which, Agent #2 says, "I don't think you have any idea what our job is."

Man: "I know everything about your job. All it is, is to erode the 2nd Amendment."

Agent: "Please tell me…"

Man: "Shall not be infringed."

Agent: "So, uh, violent, uh, criminals with guns that we take off the street – "

Man: "Oh, like at Waco?"

Ouch that one's gonna leave a mark. But the man wasn't done yet.

Man: "Or at Ruby Ridge?"

Agent: "Oh gosh."

At this point, the agents dialed the snark up to 11, but eventually left empty-handed after making assorted veiled threats toward both the man and his dogs.

Here's the video from Gun Owners of America.

For how to handle any law enforcement officer knocking at your door, more Americans would do well to introduce themselves to John H. Bryan (otherwise know as the Civil Rights Lawyer) and his article, Cops at your door? What they don't want you to know . . .

…If police officers are on your private property, that changes things. Cops are trained on the requirement for reasonable suspicion – to develop some reasonable suspicion they can articulate, even if total B.S., and then that entitles them to forcibly demand identification from whomever they deem a suspect. That is generally how things work in public places – but not on private property, especially a home.

Let's look at this scenario of police on your front porch and make sure we’re all on the same page about what the law is, and what the law is not, for both police and the occupants of private property.

According to the 1980 Supreme Court opinion in Payton v. New York, in order to legally arrest someone in a home, rather than in a public place, absent consent or exigent circumstances, police officers must have a warrant.

According to the 1984 Supreme Court opinion in Oliver v. United States, the heightened Fourth Amendment protections of the home extend beyond just the interior of the home itself into what's called the "curtilage" of the home, which is the land immediately surrounding and associated with the home. Why? Because according to the Supreme Court, the curtilage is considered part of the home itself for Fourth Amendment purposes. The Fourth Circuit, where the porch video occurred, just in 2015 issued an opinion holding that a warrantless search of curtilage is presumed to be unreasonable. (Covey v. Assessor of Ohio County).

In the 2013 Supreme Court opinion of Florida v. Jardines, the Court held that a search undoubtedly occurs when the government, without a warrant, obtains information by physically intruding within the curtilage of a house, which in that actual case involved a home's front porch. The Court cautioned that a search occurs unless a homeowner has explicitly or implicitly sanctioned the government's physical intrusion into the constitutionally protected area, i.e., the yard and/or porch of the home.

So if the ATF shows up at your door, your best bet is probably to shut up. Say less, in fact, than the man in the video above did. Refer any and all questions to your attorney and ask them to leave your property before you close the door.

Washington Gun Law President William Kirk says much the same thing in this video talking about the ATF running down buyers of forced reset triggers after the ATF classified them as machine guns . . .

Lastly, make sure your dog stays inside.

No problem. If he gives the ATF any grief, then they’ll sick the new and unimproved IRS on him. "You don't have to worry if you’re not guilty." "We’re only going after the millionaires (wink, wink)." Now prove your innocence as we check all transactions from the past few years. Sorry about your $400 mistake on your taxes three years ago. That’ll be a $5,000 fine plus interest and/or jail time.

And when the armed IRS agents come with a warrant to seize his electronic devices and financial records, they may just keep their eye out for any solvent traps while they’re at it.

Literally, because NFA violation are de facto tax evasion.

"…because NFA violation are de facto tax evasion."

Not always.

Kyle ? (FPS Russia), got jammed-up with an NFA violation for having a commercial silencer that was CeraKote’d charged with having the serial numbers obliterated because the CeraKote material partially filled-in the serial numbers.

You could still clearly make out the serial numbers, but because the depth was no longer as deep as they were *before* the CeraKote process (the BATF apparently has specifications on this that must be followed), he earned a federal prison conviction and sentence of 90 days (I think).

Now, 90 days is nothing to serve, but it's still a felony conviction and prison sentence he gets to live with for the rest of his life…

What a gross mis use of the justice system"Partially filling the serial number to a depth below specifications" – FELON!!

Now you person who robbed a shop of goods , that's ok.

Kyle of FPSRussia was sent to jail for 60 days over hash oil. Not sure where you get your news from but it is 100% incorrect and or wrong person.

"Not sure where you get your news from but it is 100% incorrect and or wrong person."

Straight from Kyle's mouth.

My bad. (Sobbing uncontrollably). I slightly mis-remembered a few details. Can you ever forgive me?

It was 60 days instead of 90.

They threatened to charge him with defacing a serial number, but ended up charging him the drug charge, as Kyle relates below :

(It apparently was a charge they could have nailed him on, if they wanted.)

"The Real RifleRemedy2000 Has Come Forward…And He Has Lots of Interesting Things to Say"

Make of this what you may…

Thank you for the video and the Fustercluck Biden's ATF is causing.

It's a fishing expedition / trap.

They want him to "say things" that they can capture for later prosecution.

Things like: "We know what you are using it for, correct? You bought a jig with it."

They want him to run his mouth and either 1) Lie to them and capture it, or 2) admit to something he shouldn't so they can enter his house without a warrant. If they catch him in a lie, they can prosecute him for the lie, because it is against federal law to lie to federal agents. They can lie to you, but you can't lie to them, or prison time. #Equality. If it's your local PD, feel free to lie to their face. A federal agent? No. If your local PD is catching murderers, thieves, and rapists – give them your respect. They deserve it. If they are at your home to check if your home build is 922R compliant, tell them to fuck off. This is essentially, what this guy did to these ATF agents. He indirectly implied they were very much not welcome. They were very much not the good guys. And his cold shouldering of their questions was a nonverbal fuck off. He played the game right:

Not answering questions.Not signing anything.Do you have a warrant?Watch out for the dogs on the way out.

They are there to hook him on a lie, or accidental admission of guilt and reel him in. They are predators. It's your job and duty as a stand up citizen to let them know they are not welcome. They are, in fact, not the good guys. You are not going to play their game. And most importantly, that they are a societal negative, and are deserving of zero respect.

I enjoyed their immediate presumption of guilt by implying he was building silencers, when he answered the door. Any loaded questions such as these should be immediately followed with indirect fuck off body language. A solvent trap is perfectly legal, if you are using it as as a solvent trap or filter. Or even keeping it unassembled. Intent plays some role here, not just purely constructive possession. And these ATF fools are not your friends or deserve respect. The "we are catching criminals with guns… " garbage is literally you. To them, you are the criminal with gun. They are there to catch you. Not murderers, rapists, thieves, no. The gun hobbyist. That is what they are there for. That is literally why they were there.

They’ll be back with a warrant, at 2am with a battering ram and flash bangs to announce themselves. Please have your confession prepared and signed. F-Troop will thank you for your cooperation by not breaking all of your fingers during the interrogation.

I will say this –

Had I my wits about me at the time (not likely! 🙁 ), I would have said come back with a warrant, and after closing the door on them finally, gotten whatever I had and headed to the garage. Where I would snap digital pictures of the items and then destroyed them, and snapped additional pictures of the remains.

Then I would e-mail those pics off to a few people I trusted. Then sweep up the mangled bits and put them in a bag for when they returned.

The best thing? I dunno, but maybe the safest, at that point?

Can any actual lawyers comment, please?

They are devaluing our money so fast with inflation that before long it’ll take half a million to buy a big mac. They weren't lying about going after millionaires, they were just looking ahead.

using greenbacks at every opportunity makes NO trail for the IRS to even think they have sometning on you. Buying and selling with Dead Presidents leaves NO trace for them to even imagine you done wrong.

There will still be a trail, though. Investigators can seize sale records, review security video, threaten sellers to make them sign a statement naming you. I prefer to use cash, but that's not a panacea for avoiding a trail that leads to you.

"I prefer to use cash, but that's not a panacea for avoiding a trail that leads to you."

Govt will soon enough get around to coercing retailers to refuse cash transactions.

An anecdote about governments trying to block citizens from weapons is supposedly the Czar was discussing the student revolutionaries blowing up things. So they banned non government explosives purchases.More havoc and the police discovered the students had switched to home made materials. The Czar demanded that these materials be banned. His security man answered; but they make it from salt, ashes, and electricity!Later they killed the Czar.Fin

"using greenbacks at every opportunity makes NO trail for the IRS to even think they have sometning on you".

Coupla things to consider: federal law now (or soon) will allow IRS to challenge every movement of money from personal accounts, where the amount is $600*, or more; also, the federal reserve is pushing to control all crypto currency, and issue US crypto currency (which leads to the elimination of cash).

The era of the cash drawer is drawing to a close.

*IRS will be able to require you to prove where such withdrawals went, in detail. Receipts for everything will be necessary. This is the reason for 86,000 new personnel at IRS.

These are the new Soviet Style Democrats that the misinformed electorate keeps electing. Joseph Goebbels would be proud of the job our mass media and entertainment industry is doing to destroy our form of government.

When the citizens "fear" the people are supposed to be protecting them…….Houston, we have a problem!

When the government fears the people, there is Liberty…When the people fear the government, there is Tyranny. Thomas Jefferson.

If you shoot my dog you have just used deadly force on a member of my family. That puts me in fear of my life, which means you’re gonna get everything I have. Closed caskets if you are found.

Lol

Yes sir. Shoot a popo k9 and you just shot a cop.They shoot any of my dogs, that's a family member and there is a price to pay for that.

Yup. Supernova time, pile of brass and all that rot. They will quit when boots on the ground balk due to coin flip or better odds they won't make it home that night.

Don't know about the rest, but I am perfectly fine dying honorably in the name of freedom, like my namesake.

You really, really do not want to die like William Wallace. The movie "Braveheart" was a HIGHLY sanitized depiction of what he suffered. Do a bit of online research and you will understand what I mean. It's bad enough that if I put it into the post, the post would probably be deleted by a moderator.

Thank-you for the sage advice about how to handle these Govt. Goons who intend to steal firearms and accessories.If I have ample warning about them in my area, I have a plan to thwart them when I invite them into my home to search. They will leave with nothing but embarrassment.I would love to share my technique with all good citizen gun owners, but I know there are Feds. that read these posts too. I will not let the skunk out of the bag.

UniverseEndingPerpetualFussionNeutrinoBlomb.Light fuse and get away fast.

If you can get far enough away after lighting the fuse to be safe, it ain't big enough.

Return to the drawing board, amateur.

"If you can get far enough away after lighting the fuse to be safe, it ain't big enough."

Borrowing…."There is no problem that cannot be solved by a sufficient amount of properly explosives".(British SAS, I believe)

BOOM!!!!

Send them away but make them leave their clothing in a pile on your doorstep.

"Lastly, make sure your dog stays inside."

Cats, too.

I don't answer the phone if I don't know who's calling and want to speak to them and I don't answer my door if I don't know who's knocking and want to see them.

Catch is I don't ever care to know who's knocking or calling. Everyone I want to see and talk to is already in my house.

I have a door mat the says "Go Away". No need for me to answer the door.

Same here. I’ve been wondering all along why these citizens are even answering their door in the first place, especially when they have video showing them it's not a strippergram. I don't have video doorbells because I really don't care who's knocking unexpectedly. I don't even bother to look. I don't sign for registered mail, either. Curiosity killed the cat (and the dog).

Didjya build yer own system, or sign up for one of the quasi-goobermunt "services"?

How embarrassing is it to be an ATF employee, harassing people about stupid shit on fishing expeditions under the guise of "stopping bad guys." The ATF "are" the bad guys.

While real law enforcement are pursuing murderers and rapists, the ATF are going door to door bothering people about solvent traps. Lame!

door to door…in relatively safe neighborhoods…not where the real criminals dwell….

Real criminals tend to resist, vigorously.

And are often politically protected.

It's gonna be great when you have to fill out a Form 1 at Walmart when you buy an oil filter. No more changing your own oil. Moreover will companies like JIffy Lube have to maintain a log book for everyone that gets an oil change there? I can see where this is going, since in the eyes of a gun grabber ANYTHING is a firearm.

Are faux silencers are illegal in ILLANNOY? Real ones are…I wonder about solvent traps?!? Funny but a bunch of YouTube boyz alerted the feds to these. Same with frt,bump stocks,"braces that only seem like a stock" and other fun gadgets. I am in no way a fan of any alphabet agency but you boyz sure make it EZ…😎😀🙄

"It's gonna be great when you have to fill out a Form 1 at Walmart when you buy an oil filter. No more changing your own oil."

A long while back, I looked up the specific thread specifications of an oil filter. It's an odd one, with tapered threads, as I recall.

I will say that nowadays, no way in hell would I order such a die and have it shipped to my house. Only way I would do it is as a cash sale at the counter of an industrial tooling supply company at a major city… 🙁

3/4 inch, or 1 and 3/4 inch, maybe? Tapered thread.

Something like that…

ANYTHING is a firearm.

Including a pop-tart.

Save the pups! Abolish the schitty BATFEces!

*Derisive snort doth ensue*

BATFces, I am soooooo stealing that. XD

*Derisive snort doth ensue*

BATFEces, I am soooooo stealing that. XD

Damn, caught the typo, but not in time apparently.

That's about a worthless blurry video. Oh, I couldn't give a flying bat shit about the IRS. If the ATFs comes to my door, they get told to kick rocks and get the door slammed in their face. I end the conversation which they hate. If the IRS comes, well hell, find a mistake Mr. Glorified Accountant, I might owe you a few hundred dollars and the IRS might own me a few hundred dollars. It could go either way so have at it.

My solvent trap is a Q Trash Panda. Damned expensive solvent trap I might add.

Decades of passive indifference is what has led us to this point.

The problem with this whole thing is that it gets sticky for the person in question really damn fast. Your feelings on the 2A need not apply, which is kinda the point for the ATF.

1. The person bought the trap to build a suppressor using a Form 1.

2. The person bough the trap as a trap/novelty/other item with no intent to make a muffler.

3. The person bought the trap with intent to produce a non-compliant NFA device.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that zero people wanted to skirt the NFA. Everyone in question is trying to be legal or, at least, has no intent to break the law. This gets rid of group 3 for the purposes of this discussion.

Well, when the ATF redefines the trap as a "silencer" that screws group 2. Intent or not, that's now by ATF definition an unregistered silencer.

But what about group 1? I’d guess that they’re fucked too. If they procured the trap before having a stamp in hand then they possess an unregistered silencer just like the folks in group 2.

But if they got the stamp first then, by definition, there's some period of time where they have the stamp and the trap but the trap is not yet serialized but is in their possession which, again, is an unregistered silencer "according to the ATF".

Expand that thinking and anything that "could be" a silencer "is" a silencer and no matter how hard you might try to comply you cannot at some point and possession of the item, serialized or not, is proof of previous law breaking.

"You can't get there from here" seems to be the point of this.

Will they apply that to companies that make silencers?

I doubt it since the US military needs those companies to make the products. Which brings up an equal protection issue that I doubt the BATFE gives a shit about.

But then, what happens if someone just surrenders a trap because they don't want the trouble? An unmodified trap? Doesn't that mean under ATF "determination" that they just handed over a "silencer" that they weren't supposed to have and now the person has opened themselves up to five years on an NFA charge and 10 more on a tax evasion charge no matter what?

Given this case, the smart thing to do is to STFU and destroy/discard the thing. Which means that the entire fishing expedition of door knocking was kinda pointless in the first place, unless the goal is to ensnare the honest, which I’d say it probably is.

God I hate these people.

"But then, what happens if someone just surrenders a trap because they don't want the trouble? An unmodified trap? Doesn't that mean under ATF "determination" that they just handed over a "silencer" that they weren't supposed to have and now the person has opened themselves up to five years on an NFA charge and 10 more on a tax evasion charge no matter what?"

*Exactly*.

Likely why in videos I’ve recently seen by lawyers specializing in firearm law caution people to *not* just hand them over to the nice people {gag} who ask for them.

Not one of them I’ve seen in over a half-dozen videos or so say to do that. Some do recommend destroying them and photographing the evidence and sending that to their lawyer, but that's it… 🙁

If he surrendered the trap, they probably would have arrested him immediately. If he signed the paper, they would have threatened him with lying to a federal agent – a federal crime, and then try to leverage that to admit guilt in some other manner, or allowed them inside for a fishing expedition, then arrested him for something else, because everything is illegal now. That is literally why they are there, why they deserve zero respect, whatsoever, and why he did the right thing to let them know they were not heroes, but predatory scum, and a negative impact on society.

There is no way you can "cooperate" with these people. They said he was not cooperative or polite. "Cooperative and polite" to these people is admitting guilt and getting arrested for your victimless hobby. No. Tell them to fuck off, and tell them they are the scum of the earth and deserve disrespect.

"Given this case, the smart thing to do is to STFU and destroy/discard the thing. Which means that the entire fishing expedition of door knocking was kinda pointless in the first place, unless the goal is to ensnare the honest, which I’d say it probably is."

The ‘Knock and talk" is a favorite tactic of LE, and they do it, because a surprising percentage of the time when they do it, they get to "cuff and stuff" the person who answers the door. (And maybe others they find inside.)

So, it's not pointless. The stupid public has trained them it's a low-hassle, high-payoff tactic that makes it worth their while to do so.

"God I hate these people."

You, me, the chimps of TTAG, and a fuck-ton of other good and decent folks agree with that wholeheartedly… 🙁

"Given this case, the smart thing to do is to STFU and destroy/discard the thing."

Wondering if delivering the components, one-at-a-time, over a period of weeks would work as a safe surrender. I mean like buy the components individually, and send immediately. 1 bube; one delivery. Copper Scrub pad; one delivery. One washer; one delivery. Keeping none of the components in possession together, think one cannot be accused of "substantial possession". But twanging the govt might be worth the entertainment value.

Just buy a lathe and a tap and die set. The government hates it when you can make stuff. Make anything. Anything at all.

"Wondering if delivering the components, one-at-a-time, over a period of weeks would work as a safe surrender."

No.

Having even *one* insignificant as it may be to you component of a suppressor is the same as having an illegal suppressor according to the BATF.

A stinking flat washer can be an illegal can in their eyes. Folks go to prison for bullshit like that.

OK, check this video out that just dropped by some Texas 2A attorneys about a lawsuit in progress concerning suppressors made and staying in Texas.

The federal government's legal response considering the ‘Bruen’ decision has them quite excited :

Ever heard of "constructive possession"?

I have to say, lawyer Emily is really cute when she's giggling with excitement like an eight year-old school girl about the legal trap she seems to believe the Feds have for them with the ramifications of the ‘Bruen’ decision on that ‘Made in Texas’ silencer lawsuit in progress down there.

EDIT – Over there, is more accurate, from here in central Florida… 🙂

Constructive possession, exactly… 🙁

Doubtful. Individual wipes are NFA items because they’re silencer components.

If you need wipes replaced it's a ton of paperwork, find an appropriate SOT or get one yourself.

A lot of LE wonder how they get a bad reputation.

I wonder how those officers walk and chew gum at the same time. Brah, if you think your brothers make you look good… stop eating old paint chips.

I don't know of a country where the street slang for "police" is friendly. There's a reason for that and it ain't because most people who use the words are criminals.

stych9, If he did buy this item, he did so LEGALLY! You are assuming (as usual) that he is going to do something illegal with it. Point, Game, MATCH!

Mr. Beverly's reading comprehension is as good as his Tennis terminology! LOL.

It doesn't matter that the item was legal when you bought it. You will be in trouble, not for purchasing it last year, but for possessing it today.

But Stych's comment is not making any assumption about the intent of the buyer. So, I don't know what you are reading.

"Agent: "So, uh, violent, uh, criminals with guns that we take off the street – "

Man: "Oh, like at Waco?"

Man: "Or at Ruby Ridge?"

Agent: "Oh gosh.""

{Sarcasm Alert}

In all fairness, having changed a fair number of my niece's and nephew's diapers in my day, a diaper ‘loaded’ with baby poo pretty much qualifies as an actual ‘assault weapon’ when the stench hits your nose… 🙁

I know, he should have said, "Don't shoot any branch Davidians on your way out." When they answered the door, he should have said, "Don't you have children you should be burning alive in a church right now?"

And F-Troop wonder why they are considered the inbred butt-monkeys of the lettered agencies? They only have the TSA to look down on.

Harsh, and accurate… 😉

"And F-Troop wonder why they are considered the inbred butt-monkeys of the lettered agencies? They only have the TSA to look down on."

Maybe not. Once came across a nondescript (though not unattractive) building, surrounded by wrought iron fencing, with arrowhead capping. No external identification of the compound, but a large US flag was out front. Wondered about that for quite awhile, then decided to search online maps. The building was the local headquarters for DEA. And they paid the mapping company to show the designation on the online map.

You don't need to actually open the door. Talk through the door. There is actually no law requirement that you open your door to law enforcement if they do not have a warrant. You have no obligation to answer any questions or sign anything or show them anything or even talk to them on your own property with or without a warrant. You can tell them to leave, and they are trespassing and then call the police because they are probably not going to leave immediately even though they are legally obligated to do so. They are going to come up with the ‘we are law enforcement so we can be here’ type excuse which means diddly squat for private property if they do not have a warrant, for private property without a warrant they are just (from the video, ‘hostile/threatening’) armed people trespassing and not ‘law enforcement’ (unless you invited them there which I’m assuming you didn't).

The ATF is going to keep doing this kind of ‘goon thug’ stuff and at some point a frightened innocent home occupant in genuine fear of their life is going to start pulling the trigger or ATF is going to start pulling the trigger because an innocent occupant on their own property would not remove their hands from their pockets.

Its best not to even open the door unless they announce they have a warrant.

correction:

"You can tell them to leave, and they are trespassing and then call the police because they are probably not going to leave immediately even though they are legally obligated to do so. They are going to come up with the ‘we are law enforcement so we can be here’ type excuse which means diddly squat for private property if they do not have a warrant, for private property without a warrant they are just (from the video, ‘hostile/threatening’) armed people trespassing and not ‘law enforcement’ (unless you invited them there which I’m assuming you didn't)."

should have been

If they do not have a warrant: You can tell them to leave, and they are trespassing and then call the police because they are probably not going to leave immediately even though they are legally obligated to do so. They are going to come up with the ‘we are law enforcement so we can be here’ type excuse which means diddly squat for private property if they do not have a warrant, for private property without a warrant they are just (from the video, ‘hostile/threatening’) equal to armed general public people trespassing and not ‘law enforcement’ (unless you invited them there which I’m assuming you didn't).

Call the police.Then wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait some more until you realize the police ain't coming.That vid of the ATF agent getting tazed was fake. No cops going to buck an ATF agent, not and keep their job.

"If they do not have a warrant: You can tell them to leave,…"

Wonder what happens if an individual says, "Stand-by; calling 911 to verify that you are actually government agents. You can wait in your car while I make the call."

Wait on the street/off my property.

"Two yahoos at my door claiming to be feds. They don't sound/speak like any "professionals". They sound like a couple uneducated inner city yahoos PRETENDING to be fed "agents". Send a couple deputies to arrest them. And send Sheriff Joe along, haven't talked to him for a while."

Once they announced they were ATF, and started asking questions, I would have said, "no questions, unless you have a warrant, looks like we’re done here," and then closed the door on them. Conversation over.

stych9, If he did buy this item, he did so LEGALLY! You are assuming (as usual) that he is going to do something illegal with it. Point, Game, MATCH!

sparingly and judiciously applied hate can be quite affectatious.

Solid points for the Waco and Ruby Ridge burns…

*snicker* 😉

He was quick with it too! So points for that. I’m not sure I would have said that, but, I would have controlled the conversation. I’m told I have a talent for it. lolHeck, we don't answer the door unless we know who it is anyway.

If the ATF show up proudly show them your distillery and tobacco crop.

"…proudly show them your distillery and tobacco crop."

They have no problems shooting dogs, what do you think they’ll do to to your mangy pelt? 🙁

Since these items were legal when purchased, the question is: who gave the ATF the information on buyers?

I’ve read elsewhere that these items were purchased through Ammo Inc. and its affiliate Gunbroker. FYI, the CEO of Ammo Inc. is not exactly as 2nd-Amendment friendly as he otherwise appears. He supported Rudy Guiliani for President and Ammo Inc's top shareholders include several ‘woke’ banks like BlackRock (5% shareholder). While we have an ongoing ammo shortage here, Ammo Inc donated a million rounds to Biden to ship toSoros’ cronies in Ukraine.

I wouldn't put it past those guys to share info with the ATF.

@The Night Wind

"Since these items were legal when purchased, the question is: who gave the ATF the information on buyers?"

The place where they purchased gave the information or the ATF seized records and go it from there.

But the bigger question is: Who gave the ATF authority to basically make ex post facto law which is forbidden under the constitution?

Ex-post facto means using new rules/laws to criminally charge you for something you did before the new rule/law was made.

You would not be charged with possessing an unregistered suppressor yesterday, you are charged with possessing an unregistered suppressor today.

It should be a 5th Amendment violation in that it is depriving one of property without compensation or due process.

Joe Obiden and the demtard party.

Good point: and it also comes close to a Bill of Attainder (also prohibited by the Constitution).

The sick thing is that a solvent trap or an actual suppressor is not a risk to the public. It's a regulation created because Hollywood movies show bad guys with suppressors.So now you neglect helping protect victims so you can enforce regulations.There was that man visited because he "bought too many oil filters".

You’ve just described nearly all criminal statutes. We could cover basically everything that is a "risk to the public" with like a few dozen laws, and instead we have so many that nobody even knows the actual number.

That's why I have a problem with "law and order" types; they basically fetishize government authority (because what is law but government rules back by force?) while simultaneously claiming to oppose big government and be skeptical of its excesses

Welcome to America. Voters. With opinions. They all suck.

My recommendation is to be as courteous as reasonably possible while telling the agents that you will only discuss such matters with an attorney. Then tell them that they have to leave your property, bid them, "good day," and gently close your door.

Say and do nothing more or nothing less.

To emphasize my above comment, please note this particular snippet of the vocal exchange between the man and the ATF agent:

AGENT: We know what your using it for, correct?

AGENT: I mean you bought a jig …

MAN: [responding in the middle of the agent's second sentence] No you don't.

AGENT: … with it for your AR-15

When the man answered that the agent does not know how he is using his solvent trap, he is tacitly admitting that he acquired and likely still has a solvent trap. That alone could establish "just cause" for a judge to issue a search warrant or, worse, an arrest warrant.

Furthermore, if ATF managed to successfully search and seize a solvent trap on an AR-15 in the man's possession (or obtain other evidence that the man used it as a suppressor on an AR-15), they can also prosecute the man for lying to a federal agent.

Disclaimer: I am NOT an attorney and all of my comments on this website are my personal strategies and opinions and are NOT legal advice.

I couldn't agree more. The less you say to feds the better, they’re not on our side and every extraneous word out of your mouth is another one they can use to metaphorically hang you

Do you have a court order/Leave my property now and only return with a court order or I will press trespassing charges" is wholly appropriate.

"Lastly, make sure your dog stays inside."

Not really…but the ATF would probably shoot them so yeah keep them inside…unless they are trained to attack on command and there are lots of them then it could be kinda fun watching the ATF scramble when you say "careful, the dogs are trained to attack on command."

Or maybe tell the ATF "I’ve armed the land mines. Leave now, good luck."

😄

Dave's not here.

He's shooting in the neighbors basement. Can't you hear him?

@anonymous"Just buy a lathe and a tap and die set. The government hates it when you can make stuff. Make anything. Anything at all."

Yep, there's that.

Freedom is slavery.

I don't own one, nore am I interested in owning one so I don't have a dog in the fight, but this citizen in the video defends his right to protect his personal property, if you are ever contacted by ATF without a warrant, once you verify it's warrantless contact, say nothing else and ask them to leave, if they refuse, call your county sheriff's office. This is not legal advice, just common sense.

@Southern Cross August 29, 2022 At 18:31"Ever heard of "constructive possession"?"

Yes, which was the purpose of never having more than one part in possession at any time. Geoff says even one part is a silencer.

While I have friends amongst local LEO's, the Federal officers I know are retired. And none were ATF. Marshal's Service, DEA and BP. They advise you say nothing, admit nothing and ask any LEO without a warrant to leave if they are asking questions about you, or your property.The 2 suppressors I have are legal. Pain in the rear for something most of the world either demands you use, or doesn't care if you have them.Too bad those who write the laws and regulations have no clue about the matter at hand.I don't remember who said it but, " The opinions of 10,000 men mean nothing if they know nothing about the issue."

@strych9 August 29"Doubtful. Individual wipes are NFA items because they’re silencer components."

Well, rats !

The man in the video talked too much and only asserted his constitutional right for a warrant to conduct a search. He should have also asserted his other constitutional rights. It is good that he filmed the encounter to memorialize the experience. I also liked how he refused to answer substantive questions. The Supreme court said in 2013 that to invoke the fifth amendment right against self-incrimination, one must specifically and explicitly invoke it. The man in the video did not provide a reason why he was not answering questions, which officers could attribute later to animus against law enforcement or ridicule of the officers. Even though he said he was not answering questions, he unfortunately was not asserting his fifth amendment right. He also could have asserted his sixth amendment right to a lawyer in any criminal proceeding, including questions from a police officer or a federal law enforcement official. If someone says "I want a lawyer representing me before I answer any of your questions." Discussion should stop without needing to figure out the magic words needed for fifth amendment application. Always film the police. I am glad he did.

Should have called the local cops on them.

How would that work as I have one NFA weapon (SBR) that as I understand they (ATF) have the right to demand to see/inspect? Could they use that as an in to look at others?

I used to have an FFL and I also have 2 NFA items. On the two occasions the ATF clowns came over to "inspect", I handed them the 2 NFA items while they were sitting on my couch. They never got near my gun safes, nor did I tell them about them. Sans warrant, all they have the authority to do is look at your NFA items or FFL records/procedures. (not legal advice, but my experience with the ATF)

I thought they had the right to ask for my paperwork, not the items themselves?? I would politely request a meeting for that review. —but… They can look at my tax stamps on the porch, if they insist, I guess. I wouldn't answer any questions about them.

I long ago decided that, if asked for an inspection of my NFA items, I would politely inform them that I would speak to them with a lawyer present. If they asked me to present my NFA items at a meeting in my lawyer's office, I would comply (after seeking counsel). I would not invite them into my home under any circumstances. It is perfectly reasonable for professional agents to make an appointment for a routine meeting.

BY the contiuence of oppositionn to even the what then gUNOWNERS of AMERICA to even the slightest of what they think of as infringements instead of cooperating in some much needed gun ownership and useage reforms they are sealing their own eventual fate and brining about more Draconian reforms than are nessessary . That guy whom made such an issue of such a minor event is marked down as somebody who has something to hide and at some point he will be handed a search warrant and at the very least the will be on a watch list. That's how it works he’d have been much better off being straight up as I expect most people are withn nothinhg to hide.You are doing nothing for your cause here, Maybe that's actually a GOOD thing so carry non the good work!

Make sure when cops don't do their job correctly that you still bow and scrape for them when they come by. Let them search your car, home, go through your financials, pat down your person, and run cavity searches. If you have nothing to hide, it should be no problem. Grovel on the ground and lick their boots while your personal life becomes their business, even if they haven't gotten approval to do so.

Know your place subject.

Oh, and one other thing. Make sure you don't have pets and send your family to cower in a bedroom. Our friends at the ATF who are too lazy to get the warrants they need to search your place are known for killing dogs and children at the slightest provocation. They’re the perfect agency for someone like you.

Well Albert you clearly don't understand how law enforcement at a federal level works in the states. They don't care if they make an arrest or not. If they get to make an arrest and drag someone over the coals then all the better. They’re simply doing it for the sake of intimidation and they hope that people will self dispose of items because they know they don't have the manpower to deal with a non-compliant groups of citizens nationwide. I live in a very large county in a large city in Texas. Between county, state, and Federal agencies they would be hard-pressed to come up with more than about 140 tactical officers and that would be drawing manpower from two adjacent counties that are also quite large. On average anytime someone with a rifle is willing to resist entry from tactical officers 2.8 officers are killed and here in Texas someone has already resisted and killed an officer making a surprise forced entry and they didn't even get in trouble for doing so and their case was no billed by the grand jury. Serving about four warrants per day utilizing a dynamic entry is about all that can be expected on a shift using a team of five tactical officers. Even if one in a thousand warrants being served meets armed resistance that would deplete the amount of officers available quite rapidly. I also personally know these officers and after a few of their co-workers get killed and there's no end in sight to the new task of rounding up guns they will quit their job and find something new to do. Also most of the officers I know are quite sympathetic to the type of people whose doors they would be knocking on and really want nothing to do with it in the first place. You’re also not considering that making an arrest is only the beginning of the process. You still have to convince a jury to convict the person and here in Texas widespread hatred for federal agencies especially ones arresting people for anything gun related if they’re not otherwise engaged in criminal activity besides simple possession of guns or stuff related to guns makes for a very difficult time to get a conviction.

You authoritarian loving piece of shit. Tell me this, in Chicago guns are illegal, but there are more shootings in Chicago than there are almost anywhere else in the country. Gun laws only take guns away from law-abiding citizens you stupid sack of fuck. Now go get your vaccine you stupid piece of shit.Obey the government, give up your free will, and go straight to hell goddamnit. Seriously, fuck you.

Better than dynamic entry and bloodbath look to China and Canada. The example of Justin Trudeau , who has expressed admiration for the Chinese government, who has already used the most effective method which is to block access to banking. One man couldn't pay his rent so became homeless, then of course most employers will not pay any method other than direct deposit so you can't get paid. This is Already very effective coercion. These methods are in use now against enemies of the state – the "truckers" who (the bastards) blew their horns in Ottawa, were accused of the horn being a "Heil Hitler" (I am not joking), and if being agents of Russia. Serial killers, etc.,are very gently treated in Canada as part of virtue signaling. When people tried to donate money to the victims, the government threatened to cut off their banking, and also blocked GoFundMe type transfers.Now you see why government hates cash.

Exactly. They aren't stupid enough to go door to door. They will come at you sideways. You won't be able to get insurance if you are on the Gun Registration List. You’ll be passed over for promotion because a background check turned up that you’re on The List. Your children won't get accepted to college because of The List. You will drive downtown with your guns and beg some DMV bureaucrat to take your guns and remove you from The List so that your mother can get Hospice morphine and die in peace.

Adjust accordingly.

There are times, in America, that you’re required to let law enforcement officers search your house even without a warrant. For example, if you’re on probation (which tens of millions of Americans are), you are required to consent to any and all searches. Being "required to consent" is, of course, an oxymoron, because if you’re required to do it, it's not "consent." It's like saying a woman is "required to consent to being raped" — it's just not possible — and yet the government makes people on probation "require to consent" to searches.

If someone is on probation, and the BATF comes calling, you’re required to let them into your house to search it from top to bottom.

To take a personal example: if you’re an innocent, law-abiding person, but you pled guilty to a misdemeanor that you didn't commit, because the prosecutor promised you’d only get probation if you pled guilty, but if you fought it in court, it would cost you tens of thousands in legal fees and you’d risk a harsher punishment.

I never understood why anyone would plead guilty to a crime they didn't commit until it happened to me! By pleading guilty to a crime I didn't commit, I saved myself tens of thousands in legal fees and guaranteed that I’d only get probation, no jail time (while if I trusted in a New Jersey jury, I’d be taking my chances). However, while on probation, I was required to "consent" to any and all searches, and the first thing the probation officer does is do a home visit, scout all the rooms in my house, ask if there are any dogs, and ask who sleeps where (which I realized they wanted to know so they could do "surprise" searches in the middle of the night and shoot any dogs that got in there way, anytime they felt like it).

So if someone is on probation, and the BATF comes calling, you’re required to let them into your house to search it from top to bottom.

May they all rot in hell for eternity.

NO ONE NEEDS A AUTOMATIC GUN EXCEPT THE MILITARY AND MAYBE THE POLICE NOW .DAMN SURE NOT A CILIVIAN NEEDS AN AUTOMATIC … WANT ONE JOIN THE MILITARY AND SERVICE YOUR COUNTRY .. MILITARY HAS AUTOMATIC GUN .. GO FOR IT ..CONSTITUTION DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO DO ANY DAMN THING YOU WANT …

Well, NTexas, I have some very bad news for you. This is not about automatic weapons. And if you bother (which I am sure you have not) to read the Bruen decision, you will find that your rants is not at issue.The Assault Weapons as you Lefties like to call them is NOT an "automatic" firearm. It is SEMI-AUTOMATIC. Do you know the difference?

Oh, the police need automatic weapons? Are you some sort of psychotic authoritarian loving piece of shit? You’re gonna find out the hard way how fucking stupid you are because they are coming for each and every person who doesn't bow down to them and suck their c****. I’ve been far too nice for far too long. People like you just need to fucking burn in hell. Get bent you authoritarian piece of fuck.

You are a complete and total f****** retard aren't you, NTexas. Join the military? Why, so you can kill innocent Middle Eastern children for poppies and oil? How completely oblivious to reality are you? Your lack of awareness and inability to understand very obvious and simple facts shows that you are not fit for life, and do not deserve it. Nor do you deserve freedom. How f****** stupid must you be? I lived in Chicago where guns are literally illegal, but there are more shootings in Chicago than anywhere else in the fucking country… If you cannot understand the reason behind this, please get vaccinated and put a fucking plastic bag around your head, you worthless f***. Go take a walk on South Cicero in Chicago at night unarmed you f***stain. Are you completely and totally mentally incapacitated? No more tolerance for mindless drones like yourself. You’ve clearly never traveled out of the area you were born, and you’ve definitely never traveled out of the country. Your ignorance makes me wanna pull my hair out, and just knowing that you exist makes me wanna f****** puke.

We live in a country full of spineless, authority-loving zombies, and they’re a big part of the problem. The Constitution has been raped, sodomized, and rendered ineffective by the hell-bound, scum sucking creatures in power in this godforsaken country. The ATF, FBI, DHS, CIA, and every other government agency is full of mindless, soulless traitors who are deceptive, condescending, rancid pricks who have nothing but contempt for law abiding citizens. This country is a joke compared to what it used to be, and every single individual involved in this government scandal should be held accountable and punished to the fullest extent of the law. They do nothing but terrorize decent citizens, therefore they should be treated as ‘terrorists’, just as they treat the citizens of this country. They have nothing but contempt for our rights, and that cannot be tolerated.

I’m concerned because I believe it's only a matter of time, before one of these Unconstitutional Warrantless Fishing Expeditions the ATF is performing, results in a blood bath for agents and the property owner.After the threats and rhetoric the Fuehrer, I mean President has made the last few days, we know his Geheime Staatspolizei are upping the ante. "Ve Vill Take Your Guns Away," is here, and it won't change however Election 22 goes. Impeaching this Son of a Biscuit Eater, would only put his Depury Reichsfuerer in charge, and she’ll be as bad if not worse than the Demented Dipschitt himself.Democrats want a Civil War, because the A$$hole in Chief can lay claim to all the power he wants during a crisis. I think we’re teetering on the brink, and soon it will unavoidable.

"I believe it's only a matter of time, before one of these Unconstitutional Warrantless Fishing Expeditions the ATF is performing, results in a blood bath for agents and the property owner."

That is the hope, and intent. Dims/Leftists/statists/Commies/authoritarians are all praying for a gun fight that can be blamed on legal gun owners.

I just thought of an interesting way to get them to leave your property. As soon as they get to your door, put up a sign on your porch that says "No firearms allowed on this property". Then ask them to return to their cars and place their firearms in their trunks and lock them up. If they refuse, tell them they have to immediately leave the property or you will charge them with trespassing. Maybe those idiotic signs do have purpose.

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